(Disclosure: I am a graduate of the College.). Had they listed their true HES credential on the resume and sold it in the interview, they would be fine. etc.). [tab] [tab] Field of Study (major) I’m in the program because it’s rigorous and relatively inexpensive, and a way for me to gain knowledge to complete an entrepreneurial project. The difference I see is that some of those 1 week programs cost $10000 whereas an entire extension degree costs less. Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development used to have a phone number that anyone could call to ask if a person was a Harvard graduate. Why get 2 master degrees in extension studies? The Harvard Crimson just published an article about the Harvard Extension School degree designations. The (HES) reminds me of California Schools which “thinks outside the box”. I encouraged her. That’s common decency. As the same person noted on Twitter: It’s absurd to think it’s unethical to mention your concentration or field of study on your resume. … that you mentioned in your “A convenient excuse” section of the blog post. Then there’re individuals that didn’t attend and wish that they could’ve had that opportunity and wouldn’t take the time to consider the Harvard extension school due to their lack of real time ambition to successfully acquire self actualization. Lets not fool anyone. And the ALM is apparently 15-20 percent according to the Wiki site. There is nothing to be ashamed of about it. Very true…too bad it doesn’t work for consultants who are self-employed! Would these simple facts on a resume be considered misleading? Heres one more point: The money! The problems with the way you about this are: 1. Perhaps in some weird way Harvard knows that by being so selective on traditional entry, and lax on HES enrollment that it can guarantee itself a windfall of students paying $2K per class and not have to recognize them as Harvard alums. And when you are a leader, you know that you do good with others, not against them. We all take different paths in life and no one should belittle anyone else because it is different than yours. In this case, the “Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies with a concentration in XXX” is used because of restrictions place on HES by Harvard University at large. I publicly and proudly list my Extension School affiliation on this blog, Harvard Extended, and on LinkedIn, and have done so for the past 10 years. Either embrace HES or get rid of it, but pick one. Since then, he has completed roughly half of the 128 required credits (at ~$1,500 per 4 credit course) to graduate and has maintained a 3.5 GPA despite taking some intellectually challenging courses on public policy and global economics. It is also odd that the choice seems to be that HES is either fully Harvard, as good as the College or the medical school, or a total fraud. What do a bunch of inexperienced youth know anyway? I choose this option, rather, because Harvard University is the degree granting institution, and I’m getting an ALM from a school within that institution. Even though they don’t care, if they SEE “extension,” (because it’s on the resume for all to see and be confused by lol) it becomes this big (boring) explanation about the differences between the ADMISSIONS processes, followed by even more explanation (in an effort the then RE-build up the value of the degree which I seemingly just explained away) about why the person with whom you are speaking (and just convinced that admissions is non-competitive) should non-the-less STILL HIGHLY VALUE the degree because the professors are the same, the credits are the same, the location is (often) the same, and the research component is more like a small dissertation than a thesis, etc, etc. In the end, it won’t matter what is on your resume or your LinkedIn account. IT’S AWESOME. I would like to follow up with you on the “Harvard Instructor” issue. The admissions committees from either HBS and HLS admitted that HES degrees were as valuable as any other degree from Harvard. HES should be scrapped. If these opinions do not give enough credit to the value of the degree, I think it makes sense to find ways to add objective value to both the degree and the curricula and faculty behind it. First, I wanted to say that I love your HES blog. I would propose that Harvard Extension initiate some sort of distinction to set them apart from a non-degree HES student who wishes to simply take a class (e.g. The cost of listing “Harvard University” was 20k and even more than that in time and hard work, and it’s paid. Our students come to us from every time zone, every culture and career background, every age from 18 to 89”, “As one of 12 degree-granting institutions at Harvard University, we teach to the largest and most eclectic student body”, “We are a fully accredited Harvard school. Termination would be automatic at some firms. If I conclude that all Harvard students (or most) lie about Harvard Extension, I can claim those blogs as the best evidence I have, and challenge others to find better evidence. Then, there are “Harvard Instructors” who are those faculty members who hold an appointment in another Harvard school where they teach in addition to the Extension School. I think that graduates from HES have the right to put Harvard University in their resume. It lets employees pursue higher education, without having to open deal subjecting employees to the competitive admissions standards of Harvard’s non-HES schools. Many ivy league universities are not distinguishing among their campus and online grads degrees because they believe their quality of education is same across (can say this for Stanford). College: Harvard Extension School The fact of the matter is simply that HES students probably did not earn perfect scores (or anywhere near it) on their SATs, GREs, or other standardized tests. My son enrolled in HES at the age of 19. Add the distance learning tuition, …. I more heavily weigh when a discussion of school-difference is appropriate vs. when it’s simply confusing and inapplicable to my client/interviewer/etc… I retain the professional judgement, I do not advertise it on my resume. Heck, they even offer a Master of Computer and Information Technology degree via Coursera now. My solution would be to simply: It’s like landing your intellectual product to a company for percentage. They ask that on resumés, graduates of HES indicate clearly that it was HES. HKS grads find it harder to get jobs. If I had to hire one of two applicants for my accounting firm and one said hire me because I got good grades in high school and was active in the community (real Harvard applicant), and the other said I have years of experience in accounting and will work for three months to prove myself to you and if you don’t like what you see I will leave (HES applicant) I would hire the latter. As for your statement “I also highly doubt that tenured professors at Harvard are teaching HES classes,” it depends on the concentration and the degree program. Was it a case of someone actually stating she received a degree from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences on a resume, or going with “Harvard University” and implying it was a GSAS program in interviews? As such, I think employers looking at bachelor’s degree holders are more forgiving about one’s undergraduate major. Overall, I’m not clear why HES students are required to point out Extension if other HU students aren’t required to include that. The above states a fact — the specific school name is displayed, along with the university that the school is ‘governed’ by. This is obviously an area of great concern for hard-working students who want a Harvard experience, and also an issue for Dean Lambert who seems focused on pushing online education as much as possible over traditional in-class education. It even has a HARVARD bumper sticker on it”……..I cant see you right now, but I’m pretty sure you know what I mean…..and you’re laughing…….. Hey, that’s the American way unfortunately because where would we be if we couldn’t say sally so and so despite being underprivileged and attending college later in life can achieve the same level of success with hard work and sacrifice as susie so and so whose parents groomed her from the womb? There is no place to report this, and even if you could, what would be the consequence? Harvard wouldn’t have Harvard Extension if it didn’t take Harvard Extension seriously. Is there no objective way to evaluate the HES curriculum and its graduates? You take a reading & writing comprehension that you must pass, then 3 courses are required where you have to earn a B or higher. I made a deliberate choice to give back to my Country, and then focus on school. Admissions Committees. 5) Harvard is a research college (hence the $40 billion endowment). It doesn’t sound like she did. Write a blog about them too, if you can. As such, anyone that attended HES also attended Harvard University. Why is this “ridiculous and insulting?” That only holds if you believe the HES to be inferior. So by logic , if extension school is a subset of Harvard, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with writing: FirstName LastName My school, however, simply allows me to put their name on my resume without all the politics of dealing with rich folks who may not want to feel as if their kids will have to share the same status with others “less fortunate”. Penn, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern all have Cont Ed programs. Wow some serious snobbery in these comments. …you mean the Harvard Extension School? Harvard Extension School’s division) and I will say two things: 1. “I would go, but it isn’t really Harvard. Those in the degree program says “Student” (across all HU schools) and those that are taking a class say “Class Participant”. There are very few extension school graduates. Not gonna lie, I’m disappointed by Dean Lambert’s comments. I took Anxiety Disorders from Richard McNally, any Psychologists knows this name and he is still a rockstar leading research, currently with a focus on PTSD, but earlier with a focus on phobias. I’ve written about this extensively on […]. I’ve tested this on the public (informally). I see no reason why you would leave this information out because… How else will anyone identify and confirm what you did during your time in the program? I’ve never seen anyone list any college on a resume. Distinguishing the degree is easy — just use “Harvard Extension School” or “Harvard University Extension School,” no need to use the ridiculous “Extension Studies” moniker. So on my resume, can I say that I received a certificate in Data Science from the Harvard Department of Continuing Education? Admissions decisions, at their core, are supposed to made on the basis of whether or not a student will be successful in a school and will fit in to the community. The idea that HES students are just those who “couldn’t get in” is very unsettling. If anything, we have to balance a full time job along with our studies. If you get a moment please have a look at a reply that I posted today (29 Feb 2016) to the Remy duBois blog, which appears at the very top of the wall here. It could easily be confused with a Harvard GSAS degree. The lawyers immediately saw an inconsistency between transcripts and the diploma. … if a question comes up beyond that, THEN is the time to detail my Harvard experience, but even then I must do so with the same pride that fuels my decision to list my ALM as simply a Harvard University degree. I also highly doubt that tenured professors at Harvard are teaching HES classes. While it is associated with the Harvard “brand” the coursework is designed primarily for people who are more casual in their pursuit of a formal education. But that level of discipline pales in comparison to what it takes an adult with much less energy, no parents to ground us, and life already having dealt us some bad cards that we have to cope with. As for the comment about “demean themselves”, could you clarify what you meant? That’s hardly a vote of confidence. Ask the employee about the designation (and we the interviewee should be proud and not ashamed to clarify). Harvard Extension is a long standing Harvard tradition (read former Dean Shinagel’s book), and as has been clear with my education at HES, there were and are many, many extraordinary nontraditional students that Harvard should be more than proud to have (or have had). I had to take three classes in order to get admitted and they were NOT easy classes. Why take this so seriously?? Extension Studies is a standard industry term in continuing education. However, the Extension School website still shows only two possibilities: “in Extension Studies” or nothing. I’ve got your dues right here. The world has plenty of fakery all around. So far expensive colleges squeese students for money, thus loosing enormous pool of talent, who can not afford, and know in advance that efforts of educators and educated will largely go wasted. I don’t see anything misleading and I don’t know how else to list it on my resume. For two trust and believe I would never feel inferior to you, based on which part of Harvard you graduated from. Reality: 95% won’t know the difference; the remaining 5% will have this disclosed when/if the topic comes up, unless they know ALB/ALM=Extension, which most prestigious schools do AND value it – no explanation needed (though I’d offer it during an interview none-the-less). . I don’t list my degree from Columbia including “Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science”. However, Harvard isn’t holding their end of the bargain by listing (on the diploma) of what I actually studied (Management). I appreciate HES because it allows me to continue my independent research across the globe, yet I can find wifi in the city and connect to take my course without disrupting my overall research project. With respect to the “worth” of the degree, Lambert says: “I think it’s very clear to employers what it means. This is the University and FAS that treat HES degree recipients as inferior. And again, there should be no shame. Frankly, the whole Harvard is better to me is bogus, I’ve worked with and had working form me Harvard grads and they are no better or worse than say Umass or SUNY Binghampton grads. Our typical student is over 30, has previously completed one or two years of college, and works full time. We are lucky they still think it’s a worthy endeavor. ” didn’t cut it in my Proseminar class. ), the actual letters that follow the Management specialization are “A.L.M.” which is the Latin abbreviation for Master of Liberal Arts. Should we do it broadly and often enough to “prove” it by repeated assertion without applying the techniques that Harvard professors instruct us to use? I work full time, am raising four young children, and do a good amount of charitable work. The courses are taught by the same faculty, you use the library and other resources although not all resources may be available, the course is rigorous, you don’t get the dorm life and full “fall experience” not the coursework. I hear you went to Harvard recently, what was that like! You are receiving an ALM in Extension Studies. and so I had to clarify..well its a part time course ; different from others. The bar is high bt not the quality. I have had headhunters and recruiters question me on it and state that it was misleading for me to list Harvard University as my school. I agree. I slightly object the lack of F1 support because that wasn’t the case before 2009. If you had just said I went to Harvard Extension School and explained what you just wrote, they would think it is impressive and an achievement. Does it mention anything about the extension school or just the university? But I’m not comfortable with saying “most” Harvard Extension students and graduates lie about their degrees either, unless there is convincing evidence. Let me say up front that I am neither a Harvard grad nor an HES grad, but have been involved in the hiring process of recent graduates. : If I were an employer and discovered that one of my employees had deliberately misrepresented educational credentials during the application process, I too would be very disappointed. Against the Univ of Chicago or NYU full time residence BA programs, I’m not so sure but I don’t have the money for either. It seems that many (if not all) “professional” programs have ditched it. […] I’ve covered the issue of how to represent your Extension School diploma in the past, and it has been debated by hundreds of people on this blog and elsewhere. They offer online, part-time master degree programs. [tab] [tab] Minor Field of Study (minor) Nice post! As you can see from the updates at the end of the blog post, staying abreast of official changes has been challenging, to say the least. Do your best and leave the world a better place after you’ve gone. Its their proxy for “if you will compete well with the rest of the candidates here”. Ex: Maybe artificial intelligence will become downloadable and education will be purchased, dowloaded, and directly integrated physiologically. The prestige of Harvard mainly derives from its graduate & professional programs (Harvard GSE is ranked #2 behind Stanford; HKS is ranked #3) and its single digit percent acceptance rate in the College. Bachelor [or Master] of Liberal Arts, Extension Studies, Harvard University. It definitely points to elitism and division. Lastly, Harvard should take steps to address this. They want to be democratic, extend their resources as far as possible, educate as many people as possible and other things that sound good, but, at the same time, they want to protect their elite brand and other things which don’t sound as good. My suggestion is to contact the DCE for guidance on how your accomplishment should be listed on a resume. I agree that since HES is one of the 13 degree granting schools at Harvard University, you should be able to use “Harvard University”. Do you have a suggestion for how to list graduate certificates earned as part of an ALM? GRE would have been easier. I think you’ll find that students are very successful, but, of course, it looks different for every graduate. Preach Christine! There are two discussions that need to be separated – pursuing a bachelors through HES vs Harvard College and pursuing a masters. My question is: Do you see the school continuing to diverge from the HI requirement, not only in the professional degrees but also in the liberal arts degrees? How many want to work at XXXX to learn teamwork, public relations, and other life skills to help carve a path? Though proposed by various administrators throughout the years due to the continuing demand for online education, HES honors the idea that there is an in-classroom experience that is necessary to provide a truly rigorous, complete degree. Let’s not kid ourselves, yes, I chose HES because it is prestigious and looks good on my resume and my clients will love knowing I received an education from Harvard, BUT, I also chose it because it provides THE ABSOLUTE BEST FACULTY ACCESS and research experience in the United States of America for an older working adult. It was not handed to you, you earned every credit towards that bachelors/masters. The title on how you should present it is misleading. I am wondering now if the HES students are completing coursework that is only offered to those within the HES program? They often do not list the fact on their resumes they are in fact Extension School students. I looked at HES back when I was considering pursuing a master’s degree, but ultimately chose a different prestigious school that offered an MS in Computer Science. Thank you for being honest and accurate about your Extension degree, and for being proud of the school. We would love to be able to say our son “graduated from Harvard.” However, he may be better served by transferring to another school where he can receive a degree that won’t be so easily “spit on” by snobbish elites and ignorant hiring managers. This really is no surprise. 4. For us, because of the stigma, I think the only appropriate action is to list our degree from Harvard University proudly (as I would advocate for all of the 13 except the College, in which case I would list “Harvard College” because it’s clearly the top dog). “Just tak(ing) your degree from Berkeley or Georgia Tech” is much easier said than done. I always dreamed of going to Harvard…who hasn’t? While the screening to get into these degree progams is not near as hard as getting into any of the other 12 schools at Harvard. They feel that HES graduates are entering their prestigious alma mater through the backdoor. Not in my opinion. Other Extension School graduates deliberately take advantage of the “Harvard University” umbrella to mislead people into thinking they attended highly selective College or GSAS programs. People often want to talk about Harvard kids getting accepted based on privilege. Harvard University IS the actual degree grantor while (like the college) HES is just a smaller fraction of what University offers. 3) Human bias : Well, most of us have taken online classes at sometime, and know how watered down they felt. Good question about the transcript. When you say that “most” of HES students misrepresent their degree, first of all it is a lie …. My ALB from HES was good enough to get me admission to several law schools after graduation but that’s another story; I wish that I had stayed at Cambridge and went for one of the HES Certificate Programs instead. I would be looking over my shoulder every minute of the day fearing someone would out me. I don’t have any qualms saying I went to HES because A) I’m still a Harvard man regardless and B) all HES graduates have to work really hard, too. The degree holders are a very small minority of the class takers. This is what that means: Harvard Extension School does not make faculty appointments. That says (to me, given research methods) that I cannot claim “they don’t” nor can I claim that they “do.” That is, I see no evidence to support either claim in a statistically acceptable way. I don’t have proof. They should list it as is Harvard Extension School, Harvard University and not worry about what anyone thinks if they’ve worked hard and are proud of their hard work. OMG. ALM and ALB are representative of the actual conferred reality of the academically constituted degrees. And yes, I believe they do so with the “non-traditional” population as well–it is an asset for Harvard. It is fairly recently that people were required to put “Extension” anywhere on their resume. If someone had to verify your credentials, they would have to contact the same registrar to verify award. Build a representative sample and test it, and let’s hear the results and your conclusion. It is part of the Division of Continuing Education in the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, offering over 800 courses, 20-plus degree fields, and nearly 40 certificates for both undergraduates and graduate students. degree is as much about getting into the system as it is about going through the system. • You compete with probably millions to apply (mostly because many arent fully aware of HES) Lets break that down…. They wouldn’t. He has refused/blocked access to his transcript. As a current HES student, I agree wholeheartedly that the degree should include “Extension” somewhere in its presentation on a resume/CV. The students that are misrepresenting their degree or who say that they attended HBS are liars. I’ve never seen anyone at Columbia list their affiliated college to be sure to distinguish themselves from the extended education school’s graduate degrees. Some are otherwise good candidates, but they are still committing resume fraud. The degree officially says “in extension studies” rather than “in Computer Science” whereas the transcripts specify concentration (sciences), field of study (computer science) and a minor (thesis/research). Except since there is no Oxford College, no one should be putting that on their CV? That means the level of selectivity is not the same. The general criteria for admission requires you have some real world, verifiable work experience and some recent college credits before you will be considered. So this reason deserves its own little bit of attention, which I’ll do in a second below. And what you are doing in your comments is kind of the same thing. Finally, I think that your blog is actually doing more harm to Harvard extension school students, as it is well referenced in google, than anything else because when employers search for Harvard Extension School on internet, they find your blog, and they end up thinking that Harvard Extension School students are liars. I have come across so many professionals among the top management of corporate world who respect the extension studies the same way as any on campus programs. So I can’t criticize Harvard students who misrepresent their degrees … yet it’s OK for you to criticize Harvard students who cheat on their applications? But it is not your call to condamn them on this blog. And I think employers are very clear on what that is as opposed to a Harvard College degree.”. So if you are okay with concentrating in another area while taking some of their philosophy courses as electives toward your degree, that’s a great idea. 3. I think it’s important to look at the History of HES and the root cause of the fear of a growing number of HES degree candidates. But hey what do I know, I am just a lowly HES graduate hopeful. So while you’re entitled to it, it’s still dishonest to leave the word Extension out of your resumé, regarless of how legit your degree is. A while later, she tells us about HES and how it made it possible for her to attend school AFTER raising her siblings since she was a child, AFTER fighting cancer TWICE and WHILE maintaining her already established career. If I have an ALM in Marketing (which, I don’t) and I’m interviewing with a top hiring firm who is interviewing me for the SOLE REASON that they think I met the rigors of the ADMISSIONS process, then I should be ethical enough to explain the difference given that situation. […]. • You don’t truly compete with another person’s life circumstances, its based solely on merit and currently ability. Are we moving forward or are we holding unto tribal cosiness? “Student”: I made an attempt to put some numbers behind the trend. That’s about a $10,000 application with countless hours of work to boot. Anyone that graduated from HES also graduated from Harvard University. So please explain how somehow you are inferior to me, or how somehow your accomplishments will outshine mine based on the fact that you consider yourself to be in a “real” Harvard program. HES seems to attract people wanting to misrepresent themselves on their resumes, like dog crap attracts flies. It is just petty and ridiculous. But actually, why don’t you just admit it, you’re an internet troll who has never hired anyone in your life. If HES costs were equal to the rest of Harvard, this would not be an issue at all! Why don’t you take your pretty little self and get into the non-“inferior” Harvard instead of kvetching about it on some blog. This was 15 years ago (I used to work in Harvard AAD, helping with the alumni website). I am interested in attending HES for concentration in English. proud? There is no lunch room, no college’s elbow nearby, you work the world or global science project, or secret service theme exlusively through online sources. Then you have to start saying “huh, Harvard but not really.” I just like the quiet of personal accomplishment. Who Makes Lexus Cars and Where are They Made? Harvard Extension School is one of the 12 degree-granting schools at Harvard University. Harvard must be mired in student debt. I also think “Harvard University Extension School” (per the official guidelines for the ALM in Management) is acceptable. Bachelor [or Master] of Liberal Arts, Extension Studies, Harvard University. (Law & Policy of Climate Change). These cases bring down the reputation of the school. For me, Harvard and my degree title is what will be used. Much like a special forces selection course in the military: anyone can try, based on certain initial standards. Not only did he have to pass the notoriously difficult EXPO-25 (“Expository Writing”), he also had to complete two other courses from the school’s degree program catalog and maintain a B or higher average in all three. If you think it is bogus HES graduates listing Harvard University in their resume. I agree. This is NOT the same thing as an academic major that is defined under the supervision of an Ivy League Dean. Harvard Extension School résumé guidelines are bogus. Required fields are marked *. Additionally, your grammar and punctuation are appalling. It is not a formal academic major. 2019 Update 1: Another comment on this post notes that the guidelines have changed yet again. And the admissions rate to HES is much lower than at a number of other Harvard graduate programs. Interesting article and comments. After all, no one is expelled from public school for cheating on one exam. In order to graduate with a masters degree from HES’s Biotech program, you’ll have to take a specific number of courses from Harvard instructors like him. As a compromise the ‘Extension’ imprimatur was implemented and pushed to the public hilt. And, frankly, it gives the degree more clout. I am looking into getting a second masters degree. No. i’d love to see that. Only about a quarter of those students would have been accepted to the school, the study concludes, without those admissions advantages.” You can read the full article here: https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html. However, I strongly feel that the degree conferred in Harvard Yard in Tercentenary Theatre with all other Harvard diplomas should not be a subject for any additional verification or legal doubts. But they are saying that it’s not the same student body. (Note, however, that some Harvard Extension School grads have been able to get jobs at major tech companies, such as this ALB grad who got hired by Google). HES is great education and a great springboard to grad school, but when you present it as a terminal degree in the job market, you need to be honest. 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